diff --git a/spa/include/spa/pod/builder.h b/spa/include/spa/pod/builder.h
index 9ba3288f4..2957d41e7 100644
--- a/spa/include/spa/pod/builder.h
+++ b/spa/include/spa/pod/builder.h
@@ -168,6 +168,10 @@ static inline void *spa_pod_builder_pop(struct spa_pod_builder *builder, struct
 {
 	struct spa_pod *pod;
 
+	if (SPA_FLAG_IS_SET(builder->state.flags, SPA_POD_BUILDER_FLAG_FIRST)) {
+		const struct spa_pod p = { 0, SPA_TYPE_None };
+		spa_pod_builder_raw(builder, &p, sizeof(p));
+	}
 	if ((pod = (struct spa_pod*)spa_pod_builder_frame(builder, frame)) != NULL)
 		*pod = frame->pod;
 
@@ -209,6 +213,13 @@ static inline int spa_pod_builder_none(struct spa_pod_builder *builder)
 	return spa_pod_builder_primitive(builder, &p);
 }
 
+static inline int spa_pod_builder_child(struct spa_pod_builder *builder, uint32_t size, uint32_t type)
+{
+	const struct spa_pod p = SPA_POD_INIT(size,type);
+	SPA_FLAG_CLEAR(builder->state.flags, SPA_POD_BUILDER_FLAG_FIRST);
+	return spa_pod_builder_raw(builder, &p, sizeof(p));
+}
+
 #define SPA_POD_INIT_Bool(val) (struct spa_pod_bool){ { sizeof(uint32_t), SPA_TYPE_Bool }, val ? 1 : 0, 0 }
 
 static inline int spa_pod_builder_bool(struct spa_pod_builder *builder, bool val)
diff --git a/spa/include/spa/pod/iter.h b/spa/include/spa/pod/iter.h
index 0c6b87ccf..2a36d3fa6 100644
--- a/spa/include/spa/pod/iter.h
+++ b/spa/include/spa/pod/iter.h
@@ -357,8 +357,9 @@ static inline int spa_pod_is_choice(const struct spa_pod *pod)
 static inline struct spa_pod *spa_pod_get_values(const struct spa_pod *pod, uint32_t *n_vals, uint32_t *choice)
 {
 	if (pod->type == SPA_TYPE_Choice) {
-		*choice = SPA_POD_CHOICE_TYPE(pod);
-		*n_vals = *choice == SPA_CHOICE_None ? 1 : SPA_POD_CHOICE_N_VALUES(pod);
+		*n_vals = SPA_POD_CHOICE_N_VALUES(pod);
+		if ((*choice = SPA_POD_CHOICE_TYPE(pod)) == SPA_CHOICE_None)
+			*n_vals = SPA_MIN(1u, SPA_POD_CHOICE_N_VALUES(pod));
 		return (struct spa_pod*)SPA_POD_CHOICE_CHILD(pod);
 	} else {
 		*n_vals = 1;
diff --git a/spa/include/spa/pod/pod.h b/spa/include/spa/pod/pod.h
index 8033ae0c5..817b6b0ce 100644
--- a/spa/include/spa/pod/pod.h
+++ b/spa/include/spa/pod/pod.h
@@ -111,7 +111,7 @@ struct spa_pod_bitmap {
 #define SPA_POD_ARRAY_CHILD(arr)	(&((struct spa_pod_array*)(arr))->body.child)
 #define SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUE_TYPE(arr)	(SPA_POD_TYPE(SPA_POD_ARRAY_CHILD(arr)))
 #define SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUE_SIZE(arr)	(SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(SPA_POD_ARRAY_CHILD(arr)))
-#define SPA_POD_ARRAY_N_VALUES(arr)	((SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(arr) - sizeof(struct spa_pod_array_body)) / SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUE_SIZE(arr))
+#define SPA_POD_ARRAY_N_VALUES(arr)	(SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUE_SIZE(arr) ? ((SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(arr) - sizeof(struct spa_pod_array_body)) / SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUE_SIZE(arr)) : 0)
 #define SPA_POD_ARRAY_VALUES(arr)	SPA_POD_CONTENTS(struct spa_pod_array, arr)
 
 struct spa_pod_array_body {
@@ -129,7 +129,7 @@ struct spa_pod_array {
 #define SPA_POD_CHOICE_FLAGS(choice)		(((struct spa_pod_choice*)(choice))->body.flags)
 #define SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUE_TYPE(choice)	(SPA_POD_TYPE(SPA_POD_CHOICE_CHILD(choice)))
 #define SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUE_SIZE(choice)	(SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(SPA_POD_CHOICE_CHILD(choice)))
-#define SPA_POD_CHOICE_N_VALUES(choice)		((SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(choice) - sizeof(struct spa_pod_choice_body)) / SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUE_SIZE(choice))
+#define SPA_POD_CHOICE_N_VALUES(choice)		(SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUE_SIZE(choice) ? ((SPA_POD_BODY_SIZE(choice) - sizeof(struct spa_pod_choice_body)) / SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUE_SIZE(choice)) : 0)
 #define SPA_POD_CHOICE_VALUES(choice)		(SPA_POD_CONTENTS(struct spa_pod_choice, choice))
 
 enum spa_choice_type {
diff --git a/spa/tests/test-pod.c b/spa/tests/test-pod.c
index c208374ed..80b7355e7 100644
--- a/spa/tests/test-pod.c
+++ b/spa/tests/test-pod.c
@@ -674,6 +674,72 @@ static void test_build(void)
 	}
 }
 
+static void test_empty(void)
+{
+	uint8_t buffer[4096];
+	struct spa_pod_builder b;
+	struct spa_pod *array, *a2, *choice, *ch2;
+	struct spa_pod_frame f;
+	uint32_t n_vals, ch;
+
+	/* create empty arrays */
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_array(&b, &f) == 0);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_child(&b, sizeof(uint32_t), SPA_TYPE_Id) == 0);
+	spa_assert((array = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_debug_mem(0, array, 16);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_array(array));
+	spa_assert((a2 = spa_pod_get_array(array, &n_vals)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_array(&b, &f) == 0);
+	spa_assert((array = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_array(array));
+	spa_assert((a2 = spa_pod_get_array(array, &n_vals)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_array(&b, &f) == 0);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_none(&b) == 0);
+	spa_assert((array = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_array(array));
+	spa_assert((a2 = spa_pod_get_array(array, &n_vals)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_array(&b, 4, SPA_TYPE_Id, 0, NULL) == 0);
+	array = (struct spa_pod*)buffer;
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_array(array));
+	spa_assert((a2 = spa_pod_get_array(array, &n_vals)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	/* create empty choice */
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_choice(&b, &f, 0, 0) == 0);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_child(&b, sizeof(uint32_t), SPA_TYPE_Id) == 0);
+	spa_assert((choice = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_debug_mem(0, choice, 32);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_choice(choice));
+	spa_assert((ch2 = spa_pod_get_values(choice, &n_vals, &ch)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_choice(&b, &f, 0, 0) == 0);
+	spa_assert((choice = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_choice(choice));
+	spa_assert((ch2 = spa_pod_get_values(choice, &n_vals, &ch)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+
+	spa_pod_builder_init(&b, buffer, sizeof(buffer));
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_push_choice(&b, &f, 0, 0) == 0);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_builder_none(&b) == 0);
+	spa_assert((choice = spa_pod_builder_pop(&b, &f)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(spa_pod_is_choice(choice));
+	spa_assert((ch2 = spa_pod_get_values(choice, &n_vals, &ch)) != NULL);
+	spa_assert(n_vals == 0);
+}
+
 static void test_varargs(void)
 {
 	uint8_t buffer[4096];
@@ -1528,6 +1594,7 @@ int main(int argc, char *argv[])
 {
 	test_abi();
 	test_init();
+	test_empty();
 	test_build();
 	test_varargs();
 	test_varargs2();