diff --git a/spa/include/spa/node/io.h b/spa/include/spa/node/io.h
index 8dc326c67..166529ac1 100644
--- a/spa/include/spa/node/io.h
+++ b/spa/include/spa/node/io.h
@@ -124,7 +124,13 @@ struct spa_io_clock {
 					  *  positive for capture, negative for playback */
 	double rate_diff;		/**< rate difference between clock and monotonic time */
 	uint64_t next_nsec;		/**< estimated next wakeup time in nanoseconds */
-	uint32_t padding[8];
+
+	struct spa_fraction target_rate;	/**< target rate of next cycle */
+	uint64_t target_duration;		/**< target duration of next cycle */
+	uint32_t target_seq;			/**< seq counter. must be equal at start and
+						  *  end of read and lower bit must be 0 */
+
+	uint32_t padding[3];
 };
 
 /* the size of the video in this cycle */
diff --git a/spa/plugins/alsa/alsa-pcm.c b/spa/plugins/alsa/alsa-pcm.c
index 6da75c049..b515d1736 100644
--- a/spa/plugins/alsa/alsa-pcm.c
+++ b/spa/plugins/alsa/alsa-pcm.c
@@ -2466,6 +2466,8 @@ static void alsa_on_timeout_event(struct spa_source *source)
 			return;
 		}
 	}
+	state->position->clock.duration = state->position->clock.target_duration;
+	state->position->clock.rate = state->position->clock.target_rate;
 
 	check_position_config(state);
 
@@ -2550,6 +2552,8 @@ int spa_alsa_start(struct state *state)
 		return 0;
 
 	if (state->position) {
+		state->position->clock.duration = state->position->clock.target_duration;
+		state->position->clock.rate = state->position->clock.target_rate;
 		state->duration = state->position->clock.duration;
 		state->rate_denom = state->position->clock.rate.denom;
 	}
diff --git a/src/pipewire/context.c b/src/pipewire/context.c
index 7e7dd5c7e..3043e3439 100644
--- a/src/pipewire/context.c
+++ b/src/pipewire/context.c
@@ -1375,16 +1375,17 @@ again:
 			n->target_pending = true;
 		}
 
-		if (n->info.state < PW_NODE_STATE_RUNNING && n->target_pending) {
-			/* the driver node is not actually running and we have a
-			 * pending change. Apply the change to the position now so
-			 * that we have the right values when we change the node
-			 * states of the driver and followers to RUNNING below */
+		if (n->target_pending) {
+			/* we have a pending change. We place the new values in the
+			 * pending fields so that they are picked up by the driver in
+			 * the next cycle */
 			pw_log_debug("%p: apply duration:%"PRIu64" rate:%u/%u", context,
 					n->target_quantum, n->target_rate.num,
 					n->target_rate.denom);
-			n->rt.position->clock.duration = n->target_quantum;
-			n->rt.position->clock.rate = n->target_rate;
+			SEQ_WRITE(n->rt.position->clock.target_seq);
+			n->rt.position->clock.target_duration = n->target_quantum;
+			n->rt.position->clock.target_rate = n->target_rate;
+			SEQ_WRITE(n->rt.position->clock.target_seq);
 			n->target_pending = false;
 		}
 
diff --git a/src/pipewire/impl-node.c b/src/pipewire/impl-node.c
index a985f71f2..fd4d2dab6 100644
--- a/src/pipewire/impl-node.c
+++ b/src/pipewire/impl-node.c
@@ -688,8 +688,9 @@ static void update_io(struct pw_impl_node *node)
 		pw_log_debug("%p: set position %p", node, &node->rt.activation->position);
 		node->rt.position = &node->rt.activation->position;
 
-		node->target_rate = node->rt.position->clock.rate;
-		node->target_quantum = node->rt.position->clock.duration;
+		node->target_rate = node->rt.position->clock.target_rate;
+		node->target_quantum = node->rt.position->clock.target_duration;
+		node->target_pending = false;
 	} else if (node->driver) {
 		pw_log_warn("%p: can't set position on driver", node);
 	}
@@ -804,8 +805,8 @@ do_move_nodes(struct spa_loop *loop,
 	pw_log_trace("%p: set position %p", node, &driver->rt.activation->position);
 	node->rt.position = &driver->rt.activation->position;
 
-	node->target_rate = node->rt.position->clock.rate;
-	node->target_quantum = node->rt.position->clock.duration;
+	node->target_rate = node->rt.position->clock.target_rate;
+	node->target_quantum = node->rt.position->clock.target_duration;
 
 	if (node->source.loop != NULL) {
 		remove_node(node);
@@ -1223,8 +1224,8 @@ static void reset_position(struct pw_impl_node *this, struct spa_io_position *po
 	this->target_rate = SPA_FRACTION(1, rate);
 	this->target_quantum = quantum;
 
-	pos->clock.rate = this->target_rate;
-	pos->clock.duration = this->target_quantum;
+	pos->clock.rate = pos->clock.target_rate = this->target_rate;
+	pos->clock.duration = pos->clock.target_duration = this->target_quantum;
 	pos->video.flags = SPA_IO_VIDEO_SIZE_VALID;
 	pos->video.size = s->video_size;
 	pos->video.stride = pos->video.size.width * 16;
@@ -1683,15 +1684,15 @@ static int node_ready(void *data, int status)
 			node->rt.target.signal_func(node->rt.target.data);
 		}
 
-		if (node->target_pending) {
-			pw_log_debug("apply quantum %"PRIu64"->%"PRIu64" %d->%d",
-					node->rt.position->clock.duration,
-					node->target_quantum,
-					node->rt.position->clock.rate.denom,
-					node->target_rate.denom);
-			node->rt.position->clock.duration = node->target_quantum;
-			node->rt.position->clock.rate = node->target_rate;
-			node->target_pending = false;
+		/* This update is done too late, the driver should do this
+		 * before calling the ready callback so that it can use the new target
+		 * duration and rate to schedule the next update. We do this here to
+		 * help drivers that don't support this yet */
+		if (node->rt.position->clock.duration != node->rt.position->clock.target_duration ||
+		    node->rt.position->clock.rate.denom != node->rt.position->clock.target_rate.denom) {
+			pw_log_warn("driver %s did not update duration/rate", node->name);
+			node->rt.position->clock.duration = node->rt.position->clock.target_duration;
+			node->rt.position->clock.rate = node->rt.position->clock.target_rate;
 		}
 
 		sync_type = check_updates(node, &reposition_owner);